Frenchie Puppy with Liver issues

[GraciesMom]

Hello, I'm new to the site. I have a 19 week old Frenchie puppy that has suffered one infection after another since I picked her up from the breeder. At her first vet appointment a few days after getting her we discovered she had coccidia and giardia. Shortly thereafter, she was diagnosed with vaginitis and a UTI (she has a hooded vulva). She's been on a number of antibiotics, some simultaneously. She's been on Albon, Metronidazole, Panacur and Cephalexan. She's also received her routine vaccinations. Anyway, about a week and a half ago she started vomiting. We took her to the vet and one of the findings on blood work was an elevated ATL level indicating liver damage. A subsequent ultra-sound did not reveal any obvious abnormalities and a liver function test (Bile Acid Test) was slightly elevated but well below what would have been observed with a congenital shunt or other serious liver disease. So we are in waiting mode -- the plan is to repeat the tests in a few weeks. I should also mention that Gracie is tiny -- only 7 pounds at 19 weeks.

Sorry for the lengthy background but here's my question. Is anyone aware of either antibiotics or vaccinations causing liver damage? We're pretty sure (but not positive) she did not ingest anything toxic hence our suspecting the meds or vaccines. Without knowing what caused it we're afraid of almost everything in her environment. Plus she's due for her last round of vaccines. Both our regular vet and the internist think we should proceed but we're nervous about it.

 

[Alice Kable]

Welcome to you and Gracie. All I know is that a lot of meds are processed thru the liver. That said, I would be nervous about vaccinations too. Because she is so tiny could they give her a reduced dose and have it still be effective? I am so sorry you and Gracie are going through this!

 

[Cbrugs]

Sorry to hear about this. Parasites can be common in puppies. When Jax came home he had giardia as well.

It is possible all the meds affected her liver. However, the vet should not be giving any vaccines until she is healthy. You should never vaccinate a sick dog.


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[Frenchie Grrrl]

I would not vaccinate a sick dog. Have them run titer tests to see if she already has immunity from her previous shots. It infuriates me that your vet would recommend vaccines to a puppy that ill, but I can't say that I'm that surprised, either.

 

[GraciesMom]

Thank you for your advice everyone. I'll ask the vet about the titer and the reduced dose. Despite everything she looks and acts like a healthy dog. She has a voracious appetite and is quite playful and active. She has not gained much weight in the past few weeks but I attribute that to the fact that the vet put her on a low fat prescription food to support her liver. I assume it's meant for an adult dog, not a puppy. The other piece of good news is that her fecal test finally came back clear of parasites after three rounds of antibiotics. I heard that just today.

 

[dermich]

I am with the group, Titers/No Vaccines at this point. Your pup should not be getting anymore vaccines with a compromised liver.
And at 19 weeks, this means when they say, they need a booster. Opt for Titers. If you vet has no idea what you are saying,
find another ver who does. Or if they tell you they are 3,4,5 hundred. Find another vet.

There are a couple Liver treatments, but your vet has likely never heard of them.
Anti-Vaccinosis or Liver Tonic; your pup likely has a toxic liver. Every items that came from the Vet
had to be filtered through the liver. Parasite treatment (Poison), Antibitotic, Vaccinations
If you don't mind, which vaccinations? Rabies, Distemper, Ando and Parvo, but most vets push Bordetella and Lepto; possibly Lime
These combinations of multi Vaccinations, which are not given based on weight, will toxic overload the liver.

The group her would ask...What are you feeding her. Especially with a hooded vulva it is important to get her on Pre/Probiotics.
I have a little one that is hooded as well, a good diet will help with this and make sure you are cleaning her good.

Also the multiple ROUNDS of Anitbiotics this pup needs good food and Pre/Probitotics.
I use Dogs Naturally Market (Love Bugs)

 

[Honeys Owners]

So sorry to hear about all her health issues.I'm not sure what's causing the liver failure,possibly the metronidazole, but here's the minimum vaccine guidelines recommended in Dogs Naturally Magazine:
Rabies - 1 year vaccine at 12 weeks and older, then 3 year vaccine after 1 year then every 3 years
Core (Parvovirus,Distemper,Adenovirus) - 1 vaccination at 16 weeks then titres in 3 weeks, if positive titre your dog is probably protected for life.

You should definitely try to build up her immune status. Commercial doggie probiotics such as Proviable DC are great, or just buy some live sauerkraut from refrigerator section of health food store, or some milk kefir. Denmarin is a great supplement to build up liver, contains SAMe and silymarin (milk thistle), or you can just give milk thistle.

 

[GraciesMom]

She is on Denamarin. I was feeding her Wellness puppy. Based on what I read on the blogs I was about to switch her to Fromm, then the vomiting started. She is now on Science Diet low fat to support the liver. This was prescribed by the internist to which our vet referred us. I actually switched vets recently because I wasn't comfortable with my previous one. After two rounds of metronidazole for the Giardia he wanted to put her on a third round. They claimed she was reinfecting herself but we've been very careful about clean up. I asked about panacure but he was reluctant to use it. So I switched. I think both vets have been careful about the shots, giving single rather than multiple vaccines at the same time. I believe at this point she has been vaccinated for distemper and parvo. I will certainly start giving her the probiotics and ask about the titer. She was due to get her vaccines today but I cancelled the appointment based on the feedback I received here. Both our regular vet and the internist said it was okay to proceed, but I was still worried.

 

[dermich]

I would be very careful about any Vaccines. I bet she got more than Distemper and Parvo. Very few vets have access single vaccines. At her age she shouldn't need anymore.

And Science Diet gives kickbacks to vets and is not that great.
The fatty liver part is a symptom not a treatment.
You see the same thing with Kidney issues, vet wants to have you use a low protein diet.
Doesn't help the organ really, masking the problem.

Raw is best, Good Kibble like Fromm or Orijen/Acana.
Acana is better sometime as you can get single source.

 

[GraciesMom]

I've considered raw. I'm just not sure how to create a balanced diet. Are there recipes out there for an owner to prepare a batch or do you use a commercial preparation? As for Science Diet, I've mistrusted it for a long time. I had two Pugs who developed mast cell tumors while eating it. Coincidence? Maybe, but my male did not develop a subsequent tumor for years, until he was placed back on a Science Diet prescription food. It's a scary place to be -- afraid of what the vets recommend and afraid of not doing it for fear of exacerbating a health crisis.

 

[Cbrugs]

I've considered raw. I'm just not sure how to create a balanced diet. Are there recipes out there for an owner to prepare a batch or do you use a commercial preparation? As for Science Diet, I've mistrusted it for a long time. I had two Pugs who developed mast cell tumors while eating it. Coincidence? Maybe, but my male did not develop a subsequent tumor for years, until he was placed back on a Science Diet prescription food. It's a scary place to be -- afraid of what the vets recommend and afraid of not doing it for fear of exacerbating a health crisis.

If you go with a commercial raw, it’s already balanced with the correct meat/bone/organ ratio.


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[Honeys Owners]

Some of the commercial frozen raws just have the proper ratio of muscle meat, organ meat and bone, but you would need to add your own sea kelp and fish oil. Others already have that added. You can check the websites of the places that make up the frozen raw that's available near you, and the sites will advise you if you need to add to their product. eg. I buy from Big Country Raw in Toronto, and I have to add my own sea kelp and fish oil, which they also sell separately.

 

[GraciesMom]

Thank you. I'll do some research and see what raw food options are available in my area.

 

[dermich]

Mass Tumors are likely not directly from food, this is more likely from environment, toxins and over Vaccination.
Good diet is more likely to help prevent these.
Pre/Probiotics, Vitamins, Limited Vaccinations, Limited direct toxins like
dewormers and limited/No Heartworm preventatives.

 

[GraciesMom]

Hello all. I just wanted to give everyone an update. Gracie's liver problems seem to have resolved! The liver enzymes in her last two blood panels have been in the normal range and her second ultra-sound was stable with no obvious indications of liver disease. She's still very petite though -- 10 pounds at 26 weeks (picture attached). I can now transition her to a better food than prescription Science Diet. I found a specialty store near home that carries Fromm and picked some up today to begin the transition.

 

[GraciesMom]

PS -- sorry for the upside down picture (of course our lives have been upside down lately -- lol)

 

[Frenchie Grrrl]

Great news!! She's a lil cutie.

 

[2bullymama]

Hello all. I just wanted to give everyone an update. Gracie's liver problems seem to have resolved! The liver enzymes in her last two blood panels have been in the normal range and her second ultra-sound was stable with no obvious indications of liver disease. She's still very petite though -- 10 pounds at 26 weeks (picture attached). I can now transition her to a better food than prescription Science Diet. I found a specialty store near home that carries Fromm and picked some up today to begin the transition.

View attachment 11856

Fantastic news!! She is beautiful


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[CarrotTheFrenchie]

Did you ever find out what caused the elevated ALT levels? I feel like I could have written your original post myself! Carrot had an extended battle with Giardia. I lost count of how many rounds of medication we gave her before we finally gave up since the vet felt like it would resolve itself (which it did) But, I've always felt like that early Giardia experience kind of messed with her system. She also has had elevated liver levels for the past year. I can't figure out what's causing the elevated levels but they always show up on her blood work. some vets feel like it isn't a big deal, but others have recommended further testing. I finally did a bile acid test and her post eating blood test came back elevated. It wasn't off the charts but still elevated enough to suggest she might have a shunt or something else. But, she doesn't seem to have any noticeable symptoms (seizures) so the vets aren't overly concerned. I'm suspicious that all of the giardia medication caused this, but none of my vets agree.

May I ask if you gave Gracie anything that helped? My vet suggested milk thistle. Not sure if I should give her denamarin or is there a natural version of milk thistle that might be better?

 

[GraciesMom]

Gracie was on so many medications, several concurrently, that it's hard to say what caused her liver issues. Her bile acid test was just barely above normal. The veterinary internist to which we were referred said the test results would have been much higher (well above normal) if she had a shunt. If your vet suspects a shunt, an ultra-sound could help determine whether one exists or not. Depending on the type, some liver shunts can be corrected with surgery. We did put Gracie on Denamarin. The reviews I read about it were extremely positive and I would recommend it. Our vet also put her on a low fat prescription diet. If I had to guess the culprit, I'd say it was the metronidazole. She was on three rounds of that for the Giardia.