Grain free vs Grains?

[Victoriaglin]

I have always been a grain / starch / pea / legume free type of person. Had german shepherds, doberman, and have 5 Persians at home.

I have always thought I should only stick to protein packed kibbles for my past pooches and present cats with as little amount of anything else as possible.

Well now I'm hearing whispers here and there about how grains aren't THAT bad and for small breeds, it's actually good.

Talk about how one lady personally lost a dog to heat failure 6 months after switching her perfectly healthy smaller dog to an entirely gf diet.

What are your experiences with grain free vs grain diets?

French bulldogs are such a new species to me, I feel like everything I know about dogs just goes straight out the window with them lol.

I've read on here:

- Potato and sweet potato can make them grow inexplicable amount of yeast

- Fromm is the highly preferred kibble of choice

- Good to switch it up to keep allergies from forming



I do not have my puppy yet (picking her up in 1 month and 2 days) artytime: but I have my skepticism when it comes to Fromm.

Fromm seems to stuff as much 'filler' as possible. The pork and peas recipe not only has 'peas, chickpeas, and pea flour before hitting the first 6 ingredients; add sweet potato and pea protein by 12 ingredients.

With how much hype is around 'Fromm' is that really the best nutritional option for a frenchie?

I read in multiple spots here that potatoes and sweet potatoes are something that should be avoided?

Taking this into consideration, what other ingredients should be avoided and which ones should be treated as a 'necessary side'?

In other words, aside from meat protein, what else should I make sure is in the ingredient list and what should I make sure is NOT in the list? I have always went by the first five ingredients. I like to see meat protein as the first five ingredients in any kibble i get for cat or dog but turns out frenchies are 100x more complicated so now I'm simply trying to wrap my head around what the need lol.

I'm not too worried about finding a kibble with probiotics in it, as long as I can supplement with a little non fat pain Greek yogurt (right?)


So! Now that I've jumbled a bunch of word vomit, my questions in a little bit of a clearer form:

After reading some of the Fromm ingredient lists,
I'm wondering.. are filler ingredients, at this point, not considered filler ingredients?

What should be avoided and what would be considered welcome/needed when it comes to the following:

- Potato
- Sweet potato
- Pea / pea protein
- Tapioca
- Legumes / any particular that should be avoided?
- Rice
- Grains / oats, barley, quinoa, buckwheat etc
- Eggs

Soy and corn aren't on the list because that's like asking if I should put used engine oil in their wet food.


What should I look for in the first 5 ingredients? What should I avoid having in the first 5? Is that even important anymore?

What is the protein/fat content I should be looking for a puppy? What protein/fat content for an adult?

When it comes to kibble (in general), for a brand new puppy, if there's a choice between generic puppy and all life stages small breed, which would you go for?

When it comes to mixing/ creating variety, what is it about fromm that makes it easy to switch between the two?

Can I create the same affect by supplementing with a large variety of wet food, along with boiled chicken, baked salmon, raw marrow bones, cooked liver, etc? Or do I need to actually switch her staple [kibble]?

Are there certain supplements that you can't live without? Such as adding pumpkin 2x a week, or a hard boiled egg on Sundays, yogurt for probiotics, etc?

What do you add and how often? What are the benefits you're going for?

I feel like I have more questions, but I'm forgetting them!

Please feel free to add anything extra, and please don't think I'm dogging (pun totally intended) on Fromm, I'm genuinely curious now as to what I should be looking for in a kibble after reading their ingredients. I recall skimming the ingredients in my local pet store and snobbishly scoffing by the first row and immediately going to the next brand to read theirs.


I bought Blue Buffalo Puppy Carnivora which sits at 46% protein and 20% fat along with an impressive ingredient list full of meat proteins that I haven't seen blue buffalo make before. I was about to return it because I liked Orijen more as a brand in general and trust their quality way more than blue buffalo. Their puppy formula is at 38% P/20% F and their equally impressive small breed is at 38% P/18% F. It's more or less fat better for a puppy? For an adult?

Is there anything else I should be looking more closely at when it comes to the analysis?

When i got into reading this forum and what people are actually feeding their frenchies, on top of that, my partner at work starts telling me about how her dog died within 6 months after switching to gf from a heart thing and now I'm all messed up lol.

Could use any and all help I can get with this!

Apologies for the giant load of text

TIA!

 

[2bullymama]

Welcome to FBN!

When we list what foods as a recommendation it is based on what feedback we see from all the members and knowing who had good/great results.

The top five we normally recommend are due to good results for the pups, however what works great for one may not be best for another. I personally feed raw now, but that is not for everyone. When I did feed kibble, Fromm was the only food that worked for my two at that time. After much research and a few documentaries, I moved to raw, and every issue I was trying to maintain either totally went away or dramatically decreased.

So, it comes down to what will work for your pup, a lot is in how it is processed that causes the issues, like chicken, whatever the plants do to process many, many bulldogs have allergic reaction of some type to that particular protein.

I had full blood panel allergy testing done on my guys, so I have a baseline of what to avoid, nothing is 100% accurate, but it gives a good guide.

Fromm is a great food, but others to look at are. Zingnature, Earthborn Holistic, Farmina, Orijen, Acana, The Honest Kitchen.


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[Victoriaglin]

I like Orijen, but I've been hearing that grains *should* be fed. Orijen has zero fillers.

Is oatmeal good for bullies for fiber or what not? If I were to purchase orijen, would it be a good idea to give her a bit of oatmeal 1-2x a week just for the grains/fiber?

 

[Cbrugs]

I’m of the belief you should feed what works. I am not anti grain if the dog has no issues with them. You’ve done a lot of research which is good! I always try to stay away from potatoes because of the yeast factor and I believe Fromm does contain potatoes. The problem with grain free is that the they just use the peas and legumes in place. While I am not concerned about grain free and DCM, I don’t like all the peas some products have. My Frenchie and oldest bulldog are both on raw. My puppy bulldog is on Open Farm with ancient grains and is doing well on it.


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[Jakeyjake]

It's great that you are gathering as much information as you can! My male is on a special diet because of an illness so I have to cook for him. My female is on freeze dried base mixes (Dr. Harvey's, which btw has potato and Grandma Lucy's) and I add cooked ground chicken breast. She is a very picky eater so this is what's working at the moment. We used to give her The Honest Kitchen but she started turning her nose up at that. Good luck to you and I hope you find what works for your pup.

 

[Carson1834]

I know the majority on here recommend boutique brand foods but I am personally against grain free. My previous dog was a larger bully breed and was on grain free for the majority of his life. He ended up passing due to a heart tumor. While the vet confirmed it was NOT due to his grain free diet, watching a dog suffer through heart issues was enough to make me look for alternative foods for my frenchie.

My 7 month old guy is on eukanuba puppy lamb and rice. I top his kibble with Stella and chewys raw beef and salmon patties. The kibble was approved by my vet who has decades of experience with bully breeds. This was also the kibble my breeder feeds her dogs. She is a VERY reputable frenchie breeder. Member of French bulldog club of America and has been breeding Frenchies since the late 90s. Both of my pup’s parents are highly decorated show dogs (I didn’t really care about that but it just went to show how much these breeders care about health, conformation and betterment of the breed).

My guy has zero allergy issues, the softest coat and perfect stool. I did a ton of research after my last dog passed and given that both my vet and breeder approve of eukanuba, I’m extremely comfortable with my choice of dog food.

Good luck!


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[DOGMOM]

How did your puppy do on eukanuba, I am looking for a puppy food that includes grains but doesn't have chicken. What is your puppy on currently?