Rusty- MRI info

[Rusty’s Owner]

Just curious for people who have had MRI done for their dog.

Rusty’s liver test is on Wednesday at our regular vet, after that the next step is MRI.
We have scheduled Rusty’s MRI appointment for September 15, as I know specialists appointments have to be booked in advance, and if for any reason we have to cancel the appointment we can(as long as his liver test comes back good, we plan to keep the MRI for September 15).

However, the lady at the clinic that made the appointment, she told me it takes about 7 hours for the MRI, which means he is under anesthesia for the full 7 hrs!

That really worries me, however I know we need to get to the bottom of this and I hope he doesn’t have another episode before then.

So my question, has the MRI actually taken 7 hrs for them to be under anesthesia for that whole 7 hrs MRI???

For people who have done the MRI, how long did it take for the MRI??

Any info or advice or experience with this would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Mavis]

the lady at the clinic that made the appointment, she told me it takes about 7 hours for the MRI

That sounds unusual to me. Assuming it's a similar machine to humans, I wouldn't think it would take more than one hour. Can you contact them and ask how long he is actually out and having the procedure vs. having it done and then being in recovery/observation?

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

That sounds unusual to me. Assuming it's a similar machine to humans, I wouldn't think it would take more than one hour. Can you contact them and ask how long he is actually out and having the procedure vs. having it done and then being in recovery/observation?

I asked her yesterday on the phone. 7 hrs she said he is under anesthesia having it done, not including recovery from anesthesia.

I also find it very strange about taking 7 hrs.

 

[Cbrugs]

Jax has had 4 MRI’s. A couple of them he went straight into surgery so he was under a little longer but even those didn’t take 7 hours.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Jax has had 4 MRI’s. A couple of them he went straight into surgery so he was under a little longer but even those didn’t take 7 hours.

I have never heard of a MRI taking 7 hrs, and cause he is under anesthesia the whole time, that makes me 10X more worried/nervous for him being under anesthesia for 7 hrs!

I’m gonna get my regular vets opinion on this on Wednesday when he goes for his liver testing.

All it is gonna be is a brain and Spine MRI to rule out a brain tumour or cyst and also know if his spine is ok(he does have a couple weak spots), and that’s it.

They highly recommended a abdominal ultrasound due to the breed to make sure there isn’t anything else that would make the MRI risky, they just want to make sure they know its safe to put him under anesthesia for the 7 hr MRI(that was their exact words) and that the ultrasound is not required but definitely recommended.

I’m not sure if I want to do the ultrasound or not and I hope she is wrong about it taking 7 hrs, that’s scary for me.

What do you think? If it does in fact take 7 hrs, would you be really worried about the anesthesia??

And would you do the abdominal ultrasound or not?? I’m not sure if it would tell them anything

I just got my estimate, it’s $4,100(No ultrasound), or with the ultrasound it’s $7,400 estimate, OUCH!


Any opinions are greatly appreciated, I know it needs to be done to give us the answers so we know exactly what we are dealing with and if there is a cause we know what it is.

He is 3 years and I just want the best for him, I fear if he had another episode and it was his spine, he could become paralyzed or even be in pain.

This is the only test that will give us a definite diagnosis, I really want to get to the bottom of this before he gets worse.


My dad said he won’t pick Rusty up until he knows and we get a definite diagnosed if his spine Is ok or not, which makes Rusty sad because he really wants my dad to pick him up, but dad fears he is gonna hurt Rusty’s back.

I’m SO glad I have pet insurance and will get 50% of the bill back.

I can’t believe how expensive it is, especially with the Ultrasound.
That’s why I asked for estimate so there is no surprises.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Jax has had 4 MRI’s. A couple of them he went straight into surgery so he was under a little longer but even those didn’t take 7 hours.

Hong long did the MRI and surgery take approximately?? Less than 3-4 hrs??

Just curious.

 

[Mavis]

I’m gonna get my regular vets opinion

I think this is wise. In this case, I would definitely want a second opinion. Maybe he would just be sedated vs. under anesthesia? I don't think I would go to the lengths that you are for a diagnostic, but we all have to walk our own journey. Good luck.

 

[Cbrugs]

Hong long did the MRI and surgery take approximately?? Less than 3-4 hrs??

Just curious.

I can’t remember exactly but I feel like Jax was under maybe 5 hours but that included surgery. But they also didn’t call me until he was fully awake so that could be included in your time estimate.

Before any surgery or MRI, my vets will do bloodwork but they’ve never suggested an ultrasound.

It’s always worrisome for me when one of my dogs goes under especially as they get older. Jax is 9 and I still chose to do it as other than IVDD, he’s healthy and I just felt in my heart it was the right thing to do to help him. But he was in pain and needed surgery.

If Rusty is going under anyways to check his brain, you might as well check his spine. It’s ultimately up to you if you want to do this now or wait to see if his seizures continue.

Almost all Frenchies have a deformed spine but it doesn’t necessarily mean they have IVDD.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I think this is wise. In this case, I would definitely want a second opinion. Maybe he would just be sedated vs. under anesthesia? I don't think I would go to the lengths that you are for a diagnostic, but we all have to walk our own journey. Good luck.

Well from all 3 vets we have asked, it’s general anesthesia not just light sedation unfortunately.
Both vets we see, they referred us to this specialist to do the MRI, which is why we went to the specialist, 7 hrs seems crazy, will definitely get my vet opinion. Maybe I need to call the specialist to ask how long Rusty is under anesthesia for, hopefully someone different will ask the staff and hopefully it’s not 7 hrs, cause that seems strange 7 hrs anesthesia for MRI.


I just don’t know if the ultrasound is actually necessary or not, if not I won’t do it, then it’s basically $4K not $7300, which is way better cause that’s crazy cost.


Thank you for the good luck for Wednesday liver testing.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I can’t remember exactly but I feel like Jax was under maybe 5 hours but that included surgery. But they also didn’t call me until he was fully awake so that could be included in your time estimate.

Before any surgery or MRI, my vets will do bloodwork but they’ve never suggested an ultrasound.

It’s always worrisome for me when one of my dogs goes under especially as they get older. Jax is 9 and I still chose to do it as other than IVDD, he’s healthy and I just felt in my heart it was the right thing to do to help him. But he was in pain and needed surgery.

If Rusty is going under anyways to check his brain, you might as well check his spine. It’s ultimately up to you if you want to do this now or wait to see if his seizures continue.

Almost all Frenchies have a deformed spine but it doesn’t necessarily mean they have IVDD.

Ok, that’s not too bad if the 5 hrs was with surgery and MRI together.
Hopefully it doesn’t take the 7 hrs for Rusty, I found that really strange.


Same with my vets, they suggested bloodwork(which was done a month ago, and it came back normal), now the liver test wednesday, to make sure no liver issue could be causing this.

None of my vets have ever suggested a ultrasound for him for any surgery, however the neurologist was the one that recommended it, not my regular vet, so I will also ask her opinion too on this.

It’s definitely always a worry when any of my dogs has to be under anesthesia(my other dogs only got spayed, no other procedures needed for them, however, Rusty has had neuter, 3 different surgeries for the viral warts from the doggy daycare he went to that caused this, then his allergy skin testing required anesthesia, then Soft palate and nares surgery was November last year, and now this MRI when we get it done), so he is the dog with all the health issues.

However, the nares/palate surgery was needed, and same with his allergy skin testing, and those viral warts we’re a huge issue, so every single surgery was necessary.
And the allergy skin testing was one of the best things I did for Rusty as his allergies are SO much better(also changed his food helped), and the palate/nares surgery was the other best thing I did for him, he can breathe way better. So everything has made a huge difference for his health to get him in the good health, other than the seizures and the 2 areas on his spine the neurologist wants to check, that’s why when they do his brain MRI, we would be best to do it on his spine too to know 100% what is going on while he is already there and under anesthesia.

I know but that’s the thing, I want to do the MRI for Rusty’s health so we know 100% what is wrong with him and rule out the Brain tumour and cyst, and also check his spine, and I would rather do it before he has another episode incase it’s worse or he can’t walk or gets paralyzed if his spine is a issue during a episode(that’s my biggest fear).

So it’s definitely a worry for the anesthesia , however I know I’m gonna have to do it soon or later, I’m just not sure yet.

I just want the best for Rusty and to keep him healthy and be aware of what exactly is going on with him causing these episodes.

I sure hope the test Wednesday is gonna come back good!

 

[Cbrugs]

Ok, that’s not too bad if the 5 hrs was with surgery and MRI together.
Hopefully it doesn’t take the 7 hrs for Rusty, I found that really strange.


Same with my vets, they suggested bloodwork(which was done a month ago, and it came back normal), now the liver test wednesday, to make sure no liver issue could be causing this.

None of my vets have ever suggested a ultrasound for him for any surgery, however the neurologist was the one that recommended it, not my regular vet, so I will also ask her opinion too on this.

It’s definitely always a worry when any of my dogs has to be under anesthesia(my other dogs only got spayed, no other procedures needed for them, however, Rusty has had neuter, 3 different surgeries for the viral warts from the doggy daycare he went to that caused this, then his allergy skin testing required anesthesia, then Soft palate and nares surgery was November last year, and now this MRI when we get it done), so he is the dog with all the health issues.

However, the nares/palate surgery was needed, and same with his allergy skin testing, and those viral warts we’re a huge issue, so every single surgery was necessary.
And the allergy skin testing was one of the best things I did for Rusty as his allergies are SO much better(also changed his food helped), and the palate/nares surgery was the other best thing I did for him, he can breathe way better. So everything has made a huge difference for his health to get him in the good health, other than the seizures and the 2 areas on his spine the neurologist wants to check, that’s why when they do his brain MRI, we would be best to do it on his spine too to know 100% what is going on while he is already there and under anesthesia.

I know but that’s the thing, I want to do the MRI for Rusty’s health so we know 100% what is wrong with him and rule out the Brain tumour and cyst, and also check his spine, and I would rather do it before he has another episode incase it’s worse or he can’t walk or gets paralyzed if his spine is a issue during a episode(that’s my biggest fear).

So it’s definitely a worry for the anesthesia , however I know I’m gonna have to do it soon or later, I’m just not sure yet.

I just want the best for Rusty and to keep him healthy and be aware of what exactly is going on with him causing these episodes.

I sure hope the test Wednesday is gonna come back good!

Good luck!

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Good luck!

Thank you!! I will keep you posted

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Just a update on Rusty,

Rusty had his liver testing and X rays done yesterday, although it was tough for him going the full 12 hrs without eating, he did well.

We got the results of his liver test today, and they are normal thankfully

Now comes the tough decision, whether I want to go thru with the MRI or not

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

So I have decided to book a consultation with a different neurologist at a different clinic that I called closer to where we are. They have a human MRI machine, it’s way faster and bigger so they said it would take 3-4 hrs at most for the MRI there.

However, the place I already went to to see the first neurologist, they have a different MRI machine that’s slower and smaller, meaning they would have to turn Rusty around to do certain areas of his spine. They are the ones that said it would be 6-8 hours the MRI would take, meaning Rusty is under anesthesia for 6-8 hrs.

I know we need to do this MRI, but I don’t want him out for 6-8 hrs as I think it’s too risky.

So if this specialist can do it in 3-4 hrs at most, that’s what I would be more comfortable doing instead of the 6-8 hrs anesthesia at the other clinic.

I seen good reviews(4 different ones with a specific neurologist at this clinic) saying how good he is with Frenchies, and all those Frenchies had IVDD and 1 had a brain tumour.

My breeder I got Rusty from took her frenchie puppy there and said they were good.


So I requested that neurologist for the consultation, they said they can usually do the MRI the day of the consultation, I would rather make a appointment for a different day if we decide to, than to do it the same day.

His appointment with this neurologist at this different specialist is on Thursday 18th(next week).

The cost is the same as the other place($4K-$7K).

I’m just wanting to make the right decision for Rusty while not risking 6-8 hrs under anesthesia. It’s super risky if I don’t do MRI and also risky is I do the MRI because of anesthesia.

However, my parents that were against doing it due to the 6-8 hrs have now said you should do it, it’s too Risky to not do it even if it took 6-8 hrs, however I don’t want him out for 6-8 hrs thats why I’m getting another option at this other clinic, which is 3-4 hrs it takes for MRI and anesthesia.


I’m gonna get my regular vets opinion on this before we go thru the 3-4 hr anesthesia.

It’s tough though cause there is no safe route to this decision, I was told by my neighbor who is a vet, that if he had a episode, he can easily deteriorate fast and it would be safer to go do the MRI now and find out the cause.

@Mavis and @Cbrugs

What do both of you think of this?

Money aside, would you do the MRI and have him under anesthesia for 3-4 hrs at this clinic instead of 6-8 hrs at the other clinic?

Money aside, If this was your dog, would you do the MRI and have him under anesthesia for 3-4 hrs???

@Mavis you probably think I’m crazy(the response you put last time saying we all have to take our own journey, basically meaning you wouldn’t do the MRI????) please clarify.

poor little Rusty has been thru so much, he is the best dog I have owned, he is just a sweet funny boy! I just want the best for him. He is like my baby, and also my best friend honestly.

How is Jelly doing??

I attached some recent photos of Rusty below.

 

[Cbrugs]

I have put Jax under 6 times for 4 surgeries (2 of the MRI's were done the day before the surgery). And 2 of the surgeries were just 1 week apart.

For me, he was in extreme pain each time and I did not hesitate nor second guess whether or not to put him under because it needed to be done.

If I were in your situation where it is not necessarily an emergency and he hasn't had another seizure, I might wait to get the MRI done. But you need to do what is right for you.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I have put Jax under 6 times for 4 surgeries (2 of the MRI's were done the day before the surgery). And 2 of the surgeries were just 1 week apart.

For me, he was in extreme pain each time and I did not hesitate nor second guess whether or not to put him under because it needed to be done.

If I were in your situation where it is not necessarily an emergency and he hasn't had another seizure, I might wait to get the MRI done. But you need to do what is right for you.

I’m just totally worried cause there is no safe route(risky to wait and risky for 3-4 hr anesthesia),

Would the 3-4 hr anesthesia be a concern if he was your dog? Did jax MRI take 3-4 hrs??

Why would you wait and not do it?
I’m curious and don’t know what route is safer at this point.

My huge fear is if we wait, and he has a episode l, he may not come out of it if it’s a brain tumour or cyst(i know someone who was in this situation and the dog passed from brain tumour they didn’t know about), or if Rusty’s spine is worse than we think, what if he can’t walk all of a sudden.

 

[Cbrugs]

I’m just totally worried cause there is no safe route(risky to wait and risky for 3-4 hr anesthesia),

Would the 3-4 hr anesthesia be a concern if he was your dog? Did jax MRI take 3-4 hrs??

Why would you wait and not do it?
I’m curious and don’t know what route is safer at this point.

My huge fear is if we wait, and he has a episode l, he may not come out of it if it’s a brain tumour or cyst(i know someone who was in this situation and the dog passed from brain tumour they didn’t know about), or if Rusty’s spine is worse than we think, what if he can’t walk all of a sudden.

Jax was under on a couple occasion for over 4 hours because he had surgery immediately after the MRI.

You seem very concerned and not knowing if you want to the do the MRI which is why I said maybe to wait a bit and see how he does. There are risks to waiting and risks to having the MRI and the future cannot be predicted so you will have to choose one or the other. Have a conversation with your vet and see what they suggest and then make your decision.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Jax was under on a couple occasion for over 4 hours because he had surgery immediately after the MRI.

You seem very concerned and not knowing if you want to the do the MRI which is why I said maybe to wait a bit and see how he does. There are risks to waiting and risks to having the MRI and the future cannot be predicted so you will have to choose one or the other. Have a conversation with your vet and see what they suggest and then make your decision.

If Jax has been under anesthesia for 4 hrs or more a couple times, that’s definitely less risky then the 8 hrs at the other place, I would be more comfortable to have him out for no longer than the 3-4 hrs. And even that is pushing it.

I also have never been in this situation and I hear a lot of people lately at work, their do has don’t come out of the episode because of something that they didn’t know was there causing the episodes and some frenchies out of nowhere just can’t use the back legs because of a spine issue.

I honestly would rather know about what exactly is going on before some episodes happen and I would know more of how to help him and if we rule out a brain tumour and cyst and no other issues with his spine, I would be very relieved that we know it’s nothing like that.
Once we have the answers I want to do last therapy as a maintenance and preventative for his spine to prevent further back issues, however, no one will do laser therapy on him unless a brain tumour is ruled out and we can guarantee no brain tumour.


Yes I am very concerned because if he has a episode and we wait to do the MRI he might not come out of a episode if it’s a cyst or brain tumour that could be treated which could mean no more episodes for Rusty if we treat the cause. I really worry now because I don’t know if there is anything on his head that could be causing these episodes, and I don’t know how his spine is, which I worry about him becoming paralyzed all of a sudden.

So all of these things, the only way we know how to help him is to do MRI, however I haven’t had to put any of my dogs I have owned under for 3-4 hrs.

I just want the best for him and I do t want to make a mistake, I will email the vet this weekend so we will get her opinion on whether the 3-4 hr anesthesia is safe and worth it at this point. That’s the only concern I have with doing the MRI.

Thank you for answering!

 

[Mavis]

@Mavis you probably think I’m crazy(the response you put last time saying we all have to take our own journey, basically meaning you wouldn’t do the MRI????) please clarify.

OMG, I honestly love Rusty. He is the prettiest frenchie and looks so gentle and sweet.

In most things, I truly take the attitude that we should all be entitled to make our own choices as we see fit. What I may want to do may not be what you think is the best course. In Rusty's case, I don't think I would opt for the MRI for two reasons. My main concern would be the anesthesia time. It seems even dogs that have various surgeries aren't out for that long. My second concern is financial, although you said your insurance would cover 50%. Sounds like you are getting as much information as you can by talking with various professionals. In addition, I'd talk to the breeder and ask about Rusty's lineage - were there problems with his parents with epilepsy, IVDD, brain tumor, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but based upon human occurrence, I think a brain tumor would be unlikely - IVDD is more common, obviously, as can be seizures, although not as much. It can be agonizing deciding whether or not an MRI is the right thing. There is no perfect answer. The best you can do (I think, as you know), is to get all the facts and information you can from the professionals and weigh the benefits and drawbacks. Whatever you decide will be right for you. Good luck! Hugs!

Jelly is a doll. He has regressed horribly with his house training. He just doesn't want to go outside, and whenever he is out of sight, he will take the opportunity to poop and pee. I let him out each night anytime between 1-2:30 AM. He holds it until he gets outside and then pees within a minute. When I/we let him out during the day with Petey, he usually stays on the deck and doesn't go in the grass. He'll lay in the sun and won't pee, but again, I will find a spot in the house after I let him in and he is out of eyesight. Cold weather is coming and he is going to hate going out even more.

I think Jelly scratched Petey's eye during play on Sunday. It's murder to get a vet appointment around here, but I finally got him in yesterday (Weds.). He has a scratched cornea and has drops and must wear a cone for a week.

Lastly, we have a couple of boxes stacked next to the bed and Jelly learned immediately how to use them to get on the bed. He gets down by jumping, which concerns me, the number of times he's up and down. Can you suggest a good way for him to get down? Ramp? He doesn't use the box "stairs," and I don't like him jumping so far so often.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

OMG, I honestly love Rusty. He is the prettiest frenchie and looks so gentle and sweet.

In most things, I truly take the attitude that we should all be entitled to make our own choices as we see fit. What I may want to do may not be what you think is the best course. In Rusty's case, I don't think I would opt for the MRI for two reasons. My main concern would be the anesthesia time. It seems even dogs that have various surgeries aren't out for that long. My second concern is financial, although you said your insurance would cover 50%. Sounds like you are getting as much information as you can by talking with various professionals. In addition, I'd talk to the breeder and ask about Rusty's lineage - were there problems with his parents with epilepsy, IVDD, brain tumor, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, but based upon human occurrence, I think a brain tumor would be unlikely - IVDD is more common, obviously, as can be seizures, although not as much. It can be agonizing deciding whether or not an MRI is the right thing. There is no perfect answer. The best you can do (I think, as you know), is to get all the facts and information you can from the professionals and weigh the benefits and drawbacks. Whatever you decide will be right for you. Good luck! Hugs!

Jelly is a doll. He has regressed horribly with his house training. He just doesn't want to go outside, and whenever he is out of sight, he will take the opportunity to poop and pee. I let him out each night anytime between 1-2:30 AM. He holds it until he gets outside and then pees within a minute. When I/we let him out during the day with Petey, he usually stays on the deck and doesn't go in the grass. He'll lay in the sun and won't pee, but again, I will find a spot in the house after I let him in and he is out of eyesight. Cold weather is coming and he is going to hate going out even more.

I think Jelly scratched Petey's eye during play on Sunday. It's murder to get a vet appointment around here, but I finally got him in yesterday (Weds.). He has a scratched cornea and has drops and must wear a cone for a week.

Lastly, we have a couple of boxes stacked next to the bed and Jelly learned immediately how to use them to get on the bed. He gets down by jumping, which concerns me, the number of times he's up and down. Can you suggest a good way for him to get down? Ramp? He doesn't use the box "stairs," and I don't like him jumping so far so often.

Thanks, he is a funny, sweet ,gentle boy!

I totally agree, we all have our own opinion and choices.

For the anesthesia time, 3-4 hrs is still longer than I was hoping for but way better than the 6-8 hrs.

Both downsides you mentioned are my concerns with going thru with this MRI, However waiting is just as risky and if he has a episode and came out of it fine, I have to do the MRI anyway.

My biggest fear is making the wrong decision, and potentially risking his life, this can happen with or without doing the MRI, which makes it concerning for me cause no route is safe for him.

I just want to do what best for Rusty, and I want to be able to help him anyway I can however I don’t know what route is safer. So I’m gonna email the vet as she has no appointments available when we are available and I’m only asking her opinion and whether the 3-4 hrs anesthesia is safe or not. The lady on the phone said the vet would be able to answer the questions I ask in a email.


For the breeder, I have asked her if any of his parents or litter mates have had these health issues(I asked before regarding allergies and need the nose and palate surgery, and she said no one has had that that she knows of for his parents and litter mates).

And recently, I did ask her if any of his parents and litter mates have had seizures, spine issues, and the answer was the same, no. I always get “his parents and litter mates are healthy and haven’t had those issues”.


I know Brain tumours aren’t as common as IVDD, cyst on his head or a brain tumour can just be removed and then problem solved if it were one of those like a cyst for example. However if they don’t find anything on his head, it would be considered ‘idiopathic epilepsy’ which means no known cause, and we would also know how his spine is.

As I’m typing this, Rusty just had a head tremor which he hasn’t had one for 2 months, darn.

Thank you for the good luck, we need the good luck!

Darn, Jelly is not improving for house training, now he definitely won’t want to go outside in the rain and cold weather to potty if he still pees in the house now.


Poor Petey, hopefully his eye heals soon! How does he do wearing the cone?
It’s easy to scratch the eye while they are playing unfortunately. It definitely does suck to wait a long time to get into a vet appointment, for my vet, it’s around 2 weeks wait for the appointment.


Oh, he is smart to use the boxes and get on the bed. I would love for Rusty to sleep on my dog, however that’s my fear is if he jumps off and breaks his back or leg, so he is safer in his crate with the blankets that is right beside my bed and he loves it.

Yes I would highly recommend a ramp, and teach him you use it ASAP so he gets used to using it and doesn’t think he has to still jump off the bed instead.
A ramp definitely would be safer for him, as long and he knows how to use it and to use it all the time not when he feels like it and jumps off the bed too.

Any photos of Jelly? Has he gotten bigger?